[00:00:15] Ghazenfer: 

Hello everyone. My name is Ghazenfer Mansoor, your host for lessons from LEAP Show where I interview entrepreneurs, startup founders, business owners and leaders of SaaS firms and startups.

We explore their business journeys and discuss how they create innovative software solutions for their employees. This episode is brought to you by Technology Rivers where we bring innovation through tech and AI that solves industry problems. We’re a custom software development agency where we provide two main services.

First helping businesses and process automation where we help them improve their operation through AI and technology. Secondly we work with startup founders entrepreneurs and product owners in creating innovative software products SaaS web mobile apps. Most of our work focuses on the healthcare industry where we assist health tech companies in developing HIPAA compliant web and mobile products.

If you’re interested in working with us go to technology rivers.com and tell us more about your product. Today our guest is Dustin Ward. Dustin Ward hails from Risk Min. And is a 2010 graduate from University of Southern Maine with Bachelor’s degree in Political Science and Gordon-Conwell Geological Seminary in 2019 with Master’s of Divinity.

He operates two businesses as both a golf entrepreneur and equity and reconciliation advocate for his company’s “tee time” and “it is time” respectfully. When not working. He enjoys time with his two boys ages seven and four his wife of 15 years and golfing on as many courses at our New England as he can. He has also been elected member to his town select board from 2021 to 2024 and ran for a state a main state senate in 24’ as an independent candidate.

[00:02:13] Dustin: 

Dustin, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yes. That intro reminds me of how busy it’s been. So it’s good to be here. 

[00:02:22] Ghazenfer: 

To start off, can you share a bit about your journey from studying the political side and theology to becoming an entrepreneur and equity advocate? 

[00:02:31] Dustin: 

Yeah absolutely. So I had originally gone in for political science thinking I was gonna get into politics.

 I soon got the call to go into ministry in 2012 so that’s where I went and got my master of divinity thinking I’d be in the local ministry be a pastor and then all of a sudden after the events of  the death of George Floyd felt that wanted to shift into more racial reckoning work and was gonna do it with the church.

However there was a lot of toxicity that came out of that. So I actually removed myself from ministry and stepped into building my own business. ’cause I thought you know why not? I put my money where my mouth is and see if I can start my own business. And so that’s what I began in 2020 and I tell a lot of people I wish I would’ve known sooner.

I could build my own business and I could start from the ground up ’cause it has been  super rewarding and a joy to dive into actually now two businesses. 

[00:03:30] Ghazenfer: 

Congratulations on starting a business. So now we are on it. So can you talk more about your businesses? It seems like in 2020 you launched it is time.

[00:03:41] Dustin: 

Yeah so in 2020  it is time. The focus was really the market was asking for a lot of consultants who could answer the tough questions of what was going on at the time especially when it came to race and identity. So I began in a very Zoom type world educating people doing, you know, three or four hour training online and helping people understand the history of the conversation.

And that’s where the two pieces come in of the equity but also the reconciliation  which again is a ministry where it just means bridging together.  We are having a lot of folks who did not know and didn’t know how to speak about the conversation. So 2020 was a lot of educational training.

What ended up happening is I shifted from that to doing a lot more in-person facilitating  committees conversations  being more hands-on with a lot of my clients and we would do one to two year journeys of making actionable items. So over the last four almost five years now that has sort of been the flow is that business is specifically going in working with clients and trying to help them move um that conversation forward.

What ends up happening in between all that is I’m an avid golfer too. Love love the sport. I’ve golfed since 2008 but really got serious back in 2019. And so last year when I started the second business in 2024. Last year I kept having this  issue where I was having trouble finding folks to play with.

Either I would know where they are text message emails or I’d be wanting to scramble right? Four people scrambled, couldn’t find anybody and so I said out loud to myself there’s gotta be an easier way or a more central way to find people who want to go. And sure enough it came to me that  let’s create an app and get a community together of golfers who can empower each other to play.

And so that was the evidence for that business which now um we have a launched app that reflects the tee time which is exciting as well. 

[00:05:47] Ghazenfer: 

Oh congratulations on the second business. So  and and  that’s  as I heard like 2019 I think that was a good time. I would say as we were getting into COVID and the golf was one of the games you could probably play with distance so probably a good timing from that angle.

[00:06:07] Dustin: 

It absolutely was. So in 20 you know 2019 um I was starting to really get a nack for it.  you know you when you learn it, it’s always an ugly scene. You know you’re trying to work through a lot of different things ’cause it’s not natural to me. But when 2020 and 2021 happened um a lot of golf courses found ways to make it workable that they could have people on.

And that’s when golf actually shot up because people were looking for a way. To participate in some activity and yet still feel safe in a COVID environment. So you saw golf and people interested in golf shoot right up. And because of that a lot of people got interested and it opened up  a lot of people to play with that I had not played with before. So that was  a really exciting piece too. 

[00:06:53] Ghazenfer: 

But golf has often been seen as an exclusive sport so how are you working to make it more welcoming and inclusive for our different jobs? 

[00:07:02] Dustin:

 So yeah, there’s a few ways in which it is exclusive. Some I can solve, some i I haven’t yet solved.  One of the ways we’re trying to solve that is the ability to know who you’re playing with and that’s always been a huge barrier. It feels exclusive because you’ll get partnered up with people and come to find out their skillset is way more than yours.

And so it actually limits people feeling like they can go on a course and play. This app what we’re hoping to do is sort of bridge that and allow people to know who they’re golfing with. And again right on the onset we sort of ask for people’s handicap and we’ll work with explaining what a handicap is.

But it sort of helps people know well where’s the skill level? But also the other thing too is um let’s say you get on a course you find somebody you really love playing with. What ends up happening is you get to the last hole you shake hands. And how do you connect with them? Again they’re a great playing partner but how do you connect with them?

Well the app then allows that barrier to be eliminated where you couldn’t connect with them unless you know, grab phone numbers or emails. I can go back in that app and I can see oh this individual I just played with has another tee time coming up. I really enjoyed playing with ’em. They’re looking for another person.

I can be that other person. So it removes some of those barriers of not knowing who you’re playing with. And in the fear of playing with someone who’s just really better than you  or someone you don’t know. The other exclusive parts that we’re hoping to solve and maybe as we grow that will happen as the financial piece golf’s an expensive sport and so working to find ways to mitigate that expense is something in the future I’m hoping to do as well. 

[00:08:38] Ghazenfer: 

Cool. Any thoughts on that? How are you trying to or. Yeah. Is that’s something we leave for future. 

[00:08:45] Dustin: 

Yeah.  if you know if folks have grand ideas I’d love to hear them but the big thing is the equipment.

And so my hope is that as I play with individuals one of the things that happens is people go through equipment a lot. You know you wear equipment down. So my thought is I’d like to house or start to hold onto key pieces of equipment that I could then. Provide either on a rental basis or just give to individuals.

So it’s actually sort of  the starting point would be how do you collect either used or or still workable equipment whether that’s bags clubs anything like that shoes so that those who want to get into the game but know how expensive it is can have at least an entry point and not have to worry about the equipment.

And I do that for a lot of folks. I play with I have a separate an additional bag of clubs ready to go as a starter kit. So if they’re like I have nothing, no worries. Just  show up. I can give you what you need to at least enter into the game. So something along those lines and sort of building from there is sort of the future.

[00:09:44] Ghazenfer: 

Yeah not that’s a good point. Obviously right now people go to  Facebook Marketplace or other places. In the past it was Craiglist. But those are all broad  platforms. This is where you also  know who the person is. So you. Not really from anybody. So I think that that’s a great idea.

[00:10:09] Dustin: 

Yeah. I’m excited to sort of tweak it out a little bit more just and see how can I get it more organized than just an idea. How can we put some structures and framework to it? 

[00:10:21] Ghazenfer: 

Yeah. I think as you are working on it the dots will connect because the important part you talked about earlier. Is the social part. And this is not just the problem with golf with any activity. 

 I play badminton personally.  Some people are playing pickleball. The similar challenges. You meet people you don’t know how to connect with afterward. I mean yes there may be exclusive groups but then other than that like for example I go to Lifetime I play pickle ball sometimes so don’t know anybody afterward so right because the tool is.

There’s no tool to give you. I mean yeah there are tools but they’re all disconnected. You can create your own WhatsApp groups. So it’s one of those challenges. So having one place where you schedule your meeting you also have conversation afterward and along with that conversation will come into oh I don’t have a club. I don’t have this thing. Or How do I get it? Or I am not. Getting rid of this stuff and I’m because I’m buying upgrading my equipment. 

[00:11:31] Dustin: 

Yeah. And that’s another thing too is, you know as people don’t know what to do you know what do you do with a used set of clubs?  if you don’t have a community or a connection point you might go to the marketplace.

But what if you could go to the app? You have a community that already you know is engaged in golfing and you can know people. There may be a space too whereas hey I got an extra set.  and that’s a space in our community that allows for you to sort of offload that and then um get new equipment.

And this creates less waste because I still think there’s good equipment out there for people who just wanna try it.  and as they get better then they can justify buying into or investing into equipment. 

[00:12:11] Ghazenfer: 

Yeah. This is really great. So  what kind of response have you seen from early users of the app so far?

[00:12:22] Dustin: 

 It is an interesting sort of concept where I’ve demoed it. I’ve shown people we got a launch event too that we’re working on for October.  People love the idea and it’s funny because you’ll see their reaction and they’ll go, you know why didn’t I think of that? But they see the value in it, which is the first huge important piece.

They see value. It’s something that I think they understand that they absolutely would use. I think where we’re trying to make the transition is. How do you shift culturally to get people to jump on the app as their first mode of hey where the tee time’s at? And that hasn’t happened. So for me my my five to 10 year hope and plan is that we create some of this software we go from app to really integrated into um a lot of the golf courses so that when you make those tee times you can make it through our app and it’s connected to the golf course and then you know.

Who  you’re golfing with at any local golf course. So right now it’s sort of EE existential or it’s or it’s external.  But to integrate would be great. But that’s where I think one of the things is culturally getting people to instead of go to a courses website make their tee time with their software and then come to our app to put that on there make that seamless.

and I think that’s that’s gonna be a long-term process. But for now people love the idea and they’re like oh yeah that makes perfect sense. I’ve needed that and showing that need is really what we want to keep doing. 

[00:13:49] Ghazenfer: 

And then not only  that but also integration so like connecting with other tools as well as software. So that reminds me that  we build  one app for another  golf startup  that helps you with the your playability. It gives you an AI recommendation based off of  your level and everything. So. Probably at some time we’ll talk about that as well. 

[00:14:17] Dustin: 

Yes. Just there’s a lot I’ve been thinking about in terms of integration so yeah.

[00:14:22] Ghazenfer: 

Yeah. So you shared that building an app came with a steep learning curve. You didn’t know about coding from the start. You didn’t know how the process  would work. So what has that process taught you as a business owner? What lessons do you learn along the way and how is your experience? Sorry for asking too many questions at once.

[00:14:41] Dustin: 

No, those are good. Those are good questions. They’re all tied together. It’s interesting ’cause to have the first business it gave me insight into what I needed to do. For the second business the biggest thing that I learned is there are places there are things that I cannot know that I just do not know.

I was not brought up in a coding environment and the ability to learn coding at this stage in my life would take you many years and I’d already be behind. So I had to force myself to admit that I can’t do it on my own. And consulting services is very much an individual solo operation unless you know how to scale it unless you know how to pull people in and replicate some of that consulting.

But consulting is based on personality and people either like you and want you to be the consultant. They’re not gonna want someone that works for you. To do it. What I learned from the consulting is that there’s a peak there’s a maximum of what I can do personally as just in terms of time.

And that means that I need to find people that are gonna help. And so because I didn’t know coding I didn’t know how to do it. I couldn’t learn it in just an hour or a couple hours. I needed to trust that someone else knew it better and would help me launch the app. And that’s where again I reached out and found your services and to trust in somebody else to say Hey can you do this for me?

That’s huge for an entrepreneur because you start off thinking well I gotta do everything because you’re worried about the product you have and you want to control everything. And I’m Type A. I’m a huge control freak.  So for this second business to learn to trust somebody else to do a piece that I don’t understand  is a huge learning curve. And it’s the biggest risk you have to take starting out.

[00:16:18] Ghazenfer: 

That reminds me there’s  one of my favorite book “How Not Who” by Dan Sullivan of Strategic Coaching. He talks about why it is important that you find and who will do your work rather than how to do it. Because we are not all experts.

I mean e ev everything if you wanna do is really good. There are people who have expertise and are glad to hear that you went that route of finding an expert so that you can focus on growing the business and somebody else can build you that. 

[00:16:55] Dustin: 

Yeah. And that’s been a huge learning curve but also has been really. comforting because you’re right I can spend time on pushing the name out pushing the brand getting those pieces in and then talking to people about it. I don’t have to spend every waking hour trying to code it.  What was really exciting too is to have a product in hand during this high peak golf season to show people.

So if I was coding it I’d still be working at it. Like we wouldn’t have it where it’s at right now. So that’s another thing is time. Time is such a huge value as an entrepreneur. 

[00:17:31] Ghazenfer: 

Yeah. So with AI and even concepts like vibe coding  that’s entering the see how do you see technology shaping the future of tee time and apps like tee time.

[00:17:45] Dustin: 

Yeah no I’ve been excited about where it goes. So for me I’m still trying to bridge um how can ai how can the the concepts of ai what it brings to the table um actually create more of a seamless and integrated experience for a user Are there ways in which someone can find individuals um or search and filter individuals they wanna play with using ai?

’cause right now it’s on a personal level. You sort of have to go through and see what’s out there. But I think AI can take all of that large amount of information as we grow and maybe scale it down so that someone can consume it in a relative way. So right now um when you post your tee time it’s based on location too.

It’s based on time and location which I think are huge. So if you want to know what’s around you for tee times for people who are at local golf courses that’s great within a certain mileage. But let’s say there’s tons of those. Let’s say you’ve got seven you know 700 all in a local area of people who are using the app.

Could ai  bring that to a more manageable level if you can filter a little bit better? So I’ve been thinking about well where the concepts of ai the amount of data that it can consume and and spit out how does that help our app? And I think those are some of those ways of making a seamless user experience.

[00:19:05] Ghazenfer: 

Yeah absolutely. And obviously with AI you can do a lot more in terms of predictions and so we’re seeing a lot of those. Directions like some of those business ideas where people did not have before. Now with AI a lot those are possible and people are coming up with all these innovative ideas and then creating different apps for those.

And you have been candid about the challenges of being a small business owner while building an app. So what are some of those lessons you have learned about navigating those nuances? 

[00:19:38] Dustin: 

 The first and foremost is always capital. It’s always finances. You gotta be scrappy. You gotta be resourceful.

That’s why you know trusting the right people because I’ve heard some horror stories of people who will invest tons of money and lose it. So just being strategic about okay where can my dollar stretch and what does it get me in the long run?  And again it doesn’t mean it’s cheap. It just means can it get me time?

Can it get me value add? Can it get me a quality product?  So those have been some learning curves: how do you stretch a dollar, how do you make it resourceful and efficient?  you’ve also got um you know some lessons that I’ve learned of how you can be. Boost to the ground. On the ground. They always say always selling but I don’t feel like I’m selling something.

I’m always  presenting like I’m always  on and that’s a big thing too when you have a product nobody knows about. Who else is gonna tell them it’s gotta be me?  and convincing people and getting people to get excited about it and then telling them again and telling them again um so that they can have that come to their mind when they talk to their friends and their golf buddies.

So um that’s another big thing too is in consulting work over the last four years it’s been really nice because it’s word of mouth right? Someone will say Hey you should go talk to Dustin about doing whatever. But in this realm what I’ve learned is I’ve gotta always be selling, I always gotta find an opportunity to.

So put my product out there and say Hey this is why it’s great. Check it out.  and really move in that direction which is very different than consulting work. 

[00:21:10] Ghazenfer: 

Cool. Cool. And you mentioned the value of working with partners like Technology Rivers instead of going it alone. Why was this collaboration so important for you? and how was your experience on that?  

[00:21:23] Dustin:

The reason I went with a partner and a trusted partner was part of it was word of mouth. I learned about technology orders from someone that I trusted who had worked with your organization before. So that was big.

The other thing was knowing that someone also believed in the product. I was providing.  It was really comforting that I didn’t have someone who was like oh that sounds sort of silly. Like I don’t think that’s a good idea. You all sort of believed in it and believed in me. And again that’s a huge comfort when  you’re out here you’re all alone you got an idea you’re hoping it’s gonna gonna be big and someone else believes in the product too.

So  that was another reason I took that step. And then time is a huge value add. And when we sat down and looked at what could we get done in a very short amount of time. I’m still blown away.  to have an idea in October and have it a functional app in June in less than a year.  It’s still mind blowing.

And for a small business for an entrepreneur time is money but time is everything. So that was a huge step too. And that’s why I did so for me. The experience has been amazing.  It’s been awesome to work with you all and to work with technology rivers, immediacy connectivity.

 It again we talked about you know fiscally efficient. You know my dollar has stretched and that’s been a real  joy as well. So just all of the key things that make it worthwhile to have a partner has been right here. 

[00:22:55] Ghazenfer: 

Great great to hear that. So running two businesses while raising FMD obviously is not. An easy task. So how do you balance everything? 

[00:23:06] Dustin: 

There’s two things I do. I make sure I do one. I have key boundaries.  I make sure that I’m not overstretched especially in the evenings.  I work with my wife to make sure we do drop offs together as much as we can so that we’re engaged with our kids so that we can interact with them.

I don’t wanna miss the things that they’re doing. The beauty of a small business is you can build your own schedule and the curse is you build your own schedule which means you gotta find time to do things. So I try to find flexibility where I’m engaged with them and then  on off hours I’m usually working on both ends.

 So boundaries are a big thing. And then I make sure I take a rest as much as I can. I know a lot of people and I know there’s a time period where grinding the 60 hours was advantageous is what people did. We’re in a generation now that I don’t wanna show my boys that grinding 60 hours is the way to go.

That’s somehow the epitome. Can you be happy, functional and clearheaded at 40? And can you do it at 30? And that’s why I love efficiency. If I can get the same work done in 32 hours as someone else gets done in 42 you know I’m I I feel like I’ve done the right thing. So for me I find time to rest, stay recharged, keep my mind fresh so that I can do the things I need to do.

[00:24:23] Ghazenfer: 

I think the best thing you said is that if the rest of it, that’s the part a lot of people forget and that’s where people get overwhelmed. So that is the most important, at least in my perspective. So and and along the same lines so obviously with those two businesses that you pointed out but you also served on the town’s board and then also ran for the main state Senate. What connects all these different paths for you? Well  you know it’s a 

[00:24:54] Dustin: 

Big connector. It is all people and that’s you know I look back and I got two degrees that I feel like I don’t use at all but when I look at what overlaps it’s all about people. Politics is all about people. How do you engage with people?

How do you listen to people? The ministry was all about people. How do you engage with people? I think one of the thorough lines here is one of the threads and especially as an entrepreneur it’s people. So I’m in the people business most of the time. And again because of my political science background I’ve always wanted to be in politics.

I always wanted to have a voice and a seat at the table. So the best place to start is at the local level. And so that’s why I ran and it was at a very crucial time right? I had just built the business in 2020. This seat opened up in our town. I felt energized. I had a lot of support going into it.

We’re a small town. I mean we only have 5600 people. So something I could wrap my hands around. I didn’t need a lot of experience but I learned a lot so I ran and not only did I win I finished up a term for another individual. So that was a year. So I did that ran again for a three year term. And then after having those four years under my belt felt like well let’s try main state politics.

Let’s try to take it a little bit further and learn a huge lesson there that that really is a full-time thing.  That’s to let you know you can do local politics somewhat part-time, somewhat off to the side although it takes a lot of time from you. When you’re running for a state seat it’s a full-time job and I really didn’t have as much time to give to it as I probably should have.

 We made some noise and I learned some lessons but that was a big takeaway. If you’re gonna go to that level you need more time. And I didn’t have, you know, a couple of business kids. It was just  the time I needed to spend so it wasn’t there. So um didn’t turn out as I planned but it was a good experience.

[00:26:47] Ghazenfer: 

It makes sense that sometime we go back and reassess what are the priorities in life because there are so many things we wanna do but you don’t have time for everything. So you have to prioritize what works really and what is really one for you. So finally  if you could leave our listeners one key lesson from your journey across public service business family life. What it would be. 

[00:27:16] Dustin: 

I have learned over the years that if you’re not having fun then don’t do it.  There’s  one of my favorite artists, Drake. He basically says you know I’ll stop doing it when I stop having fun doing it he says it in a song and so I’ve taken that to heart and say you know I’ll be done with it when I stop having fun with it.

And if you’re not having fun, if you’re not enjoying it, if there’s no joy in what you’re doing. That’s the reassessment. And there are moments where especially in ministry I did not get the energy out of it. It was draining me and that was a good time. That’s why I reassessed and felt like we needed to step away.

So if you’re not enjoying it, if you don’t have a passion for it, if it’s not fun. then you gotta reassess why you’re doing it. So I would tell my listeners if it’s not fun for you at any point if that’s an energy drain when you wake up in the morning and it’s the last thing you want to do that may be a huge wake up call for me.

I love doing small business as an entrepreneur. I love golfing.  It is hard like there’s not saying that it’s easy but I will get up every day and do it and I enjoy doing it and I find a lot of energy from it and that’s how I know it’s where I’m supposed to be. 

[00:28:28] Ghazenfer: 

Cool. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for your time. So we have been talking to Dustin Ward who has shared an amazing entrepreneurial and political journey. Dustin, where can people learn more about you? 

[00:28:42] Dustin: 

Ooh there’s all kinds of spaces. So if you’re curious about the consulting that’s “it is time.me” it is time.me. That’s my website. Gives you all kinds of information.

If you’re curious about the app um it is tee time.com. That’s our website. We’re on Instagram at t.time18.  I have a YouTube channel up so just look for Dustin Ward and then the app under tee time connects to Android and Apple as well. So you can go and download it and try it out for seven days for free.

And tell me what you think of it. You can definitely get a hold of me you know via the website or my email. It is t time18@gmail.com. So there’s a ton of ways you can find me and you know you could probably even Google my name and some good things will come up. So those are the ways I would say connect in, follow me on Instagram, look at the app and then go on our website and take a look as well.

[00:29:36] Ghazenfer: 

Yeah and we will share these links and the podcast description  as well. Thanks Dustin. Thank you very much. It was pleasure having you on our show. 

[00:29:48] Dustin: 

Absolutely a pleasure. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it and look forward to the next time we have a conversation. Absolutely. Thank you.