0:01
Welcome to the AI for Sales podcast hosted by bestselling author, keynote speaker, and sales innovator Chad Burmeister.

0:07
This is where the future of selling comes alive, exploring how AI transforms customer experiences, drives sales outcomes, and reshapes the way we connect, compete, and close business.

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You’ll hear from sales, marketing, and technology leaders on the front lines of AI for sales, sharing strategies, successes, and the skills you’ll need to thrive in an AI powered world.

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As Dr. Joel Leon, marketing and sales professor at the John Hopkins University Kerry School of Business, said best in Chad’s book, AI for Sales: How Artificial Intelligence is Changing Sales.

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In sales, time kills deals. In AI for sales, AI kills time.

0:32
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0:38
Want an introduction to one of our sponsors?

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Go now to www.str.ai/intro
and Chad will personally connect you with the right person at any of these companies, the one who can make a difference for your business.

0:53
And remember, in traditional sales, time kills deals. But in AI for sales, AI kills time.

1:00
Get ready to learn, level up, and lead the AI revolution in sales.

1:05
This is the AI for Sales podcast.

1:11
Let’s dive in.

1:19
Welcome back to another AI for Sales podcast. I am Chad Burmeister, your host.

1:26
And today I am with a special guest all the way from Virginia.

1:37
We are with Ghazenfer Mansoor who is the CEO of Technology Rivers, a software development firm specializing in AI powered solutions, SAS product development and healthcare technology.

1:44
That’s two backtoback healthcare technology companies that we’ve talked to.

1:51
By the way, he helps startups and service-based businesses streamline operations, automate processes, and scale through smart, efficient software.

1:56
Ghazenfer Mansoor is also the author of Beyond the Download: How to build smart how to build mobile apps that people love, use, and share every day.

2:02
He shares insights on innovation, growth strategy, and building technology that drives real impact.

2:09
Ghazenfer Mansoor, how’s the audio working for you?

2:14
Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, thanks for inviting me.

2:20
Had a little bit of an audio glitch at the start, as we sometimes do when you go from Virginia to Colorado.

2:25
And for our listeners, we wanted to make sure to make sure the audio sounds good.

2:31
So, here we are. Audio is sounding great.

2:36
Thanks for being here today, Ghazenfer Mansoor. Glad to have you.

2:43
Thanks for having me.

2:50
Excellent. So um amazing you wrote a book. I’m think I’m four deep now.

2:57
Um my former CEO at connect and sell used to used to always talk about the importance of human in the loop in technology and how to keep the software simple.

3:05
So many of these founders make so many button clicks and and make it so difficult and they forget about the importance of the user interface and they make so many buttons.

3:10
Um, Beyond the Download sounds like an important book, an important read.

3:16
Um, maybe start there. Tell us a little bit. I’m going off script here.

3:23
Uh, what what is the single biggest takeaway if you gave me the chat GPT, you know, 30 second overview of your book.

3:29
What would chat GPT say about your book?

3:35
Oh, as the title says, beyond the download, how to build app that people use, love, and share every day.

3:43
How many apps do you have on your phone?

3:48
Um, just like me, I can’t even count. And how many of them you are using?

3:54
So, it’s not just downloading the app. It’s about using the app on a daily basis.

4:00
So, bringing uh the adaption, um making users sticky so that they keep coming back.

4:07
The more users are coming back, you are being uh your app is being used, you’re getting featured, you are g your users are getting benefited for it.

4:12
So that means you want to build something people use and then use some strategies that will help you build the app where pe you can bring users back again and again.

4:18
So uh the book talks about all the strategies all the things I learned in the last 20 plus years.

4:23
Even I got into mobile even before iPhone and Android when it was just web-based WML devices like controlling home devices through palm devices.

4:30
So it’s a long journey and this book talks about all the different experiences I have like it’s talked about 30 plus different strategies.

4:36
Wow. Well, I’ll tell you the biggest surprise that the podcast guest that I had last week from Houston, he’s a founder of an AI company and he works with healthcare and the biggest surprise he had.

4:43
And I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on this or if it’s one of the 30 in your book perhaps, but a lot of the health care companies that he served were optimizing on their chat bots around profit motive, right?

4:50
Let’s optimize for the most money. Like if it’s recommending a drug or something or go see this person because they would optimize for money.

4:58
And what he found was you need to optimize for the person on the other side of the chat.

5:03
And it doesn’t always need to optimize for the profit motive.

5:09
And I go back to Fred Smith, the CEO of FedEx, and I was in his class, maybe there was 50 or 100 people that were new hires, and it was people, service, profit was third.

5:16
If you optimize for the people first, the profit will follow.

5:24
And I thought that was ingenious at the time 30 years ago in my career as a young 20some.

5:29
And uh and you know, are you seeing the the world come back around to say, “Hey, let’s prioritize the customer experience first.”

5:35
Um you know, or or is is the capitalistic greed of our society still at the tip of the spear around AI?

5:43
What what do you have to say about the customer experience and what companies are optimizing around?

5:50
Yeah, I think I learned long time ago. I mean just like as as you’re referring uh where we talk about the technology is to service human.

5:56
Time you see people are building tech to force humans to use the technology but in reality the technology only works when it is for servicing people.

6:02
So at the end how many time are we going to buy like you’re going to buy something from the bot I I would I would never.

6:11
There’s a human touch is always needed. Without that we we’re all human we’re going to buy from humans we’re going to deal with humans.

6:16
Yes the tools and technologies that’s going to help you do get somewhere it will help you it should support you but the end goal is still the same the technology is there to service.

6:23
So I think that’s even more important than ever because now technology is so easier with AI you can do so many things and you may have seen that people are using it left and right without any care right.

6:28
So that means the contents being generated are you could clearly see those are generated by chat GPT or other AI tools.

6:34
So it’s not about creating the contents it’s about uh uh providing the experience uh bringing more efficiency into your processes.

6:40
So I I believe that that part has always been there. It never went away.

6:46
Is probably we were forgetting about it.

6:52
Yeah, 100%. Um maybe is there a case study or something that’s unique because there’s so many companies that are doing AI and touting how they deploy it and I think companies are starting now to say okay share with me maybe how did you grow revenue how did you decrease cost, you know if you can sink your teeth into a value enhancement how did you get value out of an AI deployment.

6:58
Any anything meaty you’re able to share or or a value proposition that you can talk to?

7:05
Yeah, absolutely. Uh so we’re in a software development business and in the software the bigger cost is building these software that’s very expensive you know it’s been uh usually the software builds are pretty long term pretty big.

7:11
Now we can create PC’s with uh a very quick effort with a very small effort so anything that was being done in a year now you could do it in two three months because now with AI you can do whole lot of things much faster.

7:17
Um there are tools like claude core, the replet, the loveable. Uh they help you get up to speed super quick.

7:23
We’re we’re we’re on a like this is a sales podcast. So I want to share one uh for example uh one or two cases like for example we got a lead on Friday and on a weekend I shared it with my team.

7:29
Monday morning at 12:00 when I had a call before that my team gave me a whole P based on the use case that was provided by the C that was pro the form failed so we created the whole application showing them before getting on a call hey this is what we think you want based on what you shared does with us.

7:35
So that was not possible before. Now you can get things done and it’s helping anybody not really just the technical.

7:41
I mean yes in order to take it to live in order to build the final version the production like you do need the human part you do need more uh more engineers to do that final plugging in or optimizing but for initial stuff you could use AI.

7:47
So AI has been helping us a lot in our development processes bringing efficiencies things that were being done in months now you can do it in much shorter time and it’s saving time.

7:54
Like I mean I I can go on and on like writing test like test cases like you used to have a developer like usually when you bring on a project so usually you bring on the QA engineer early in the like.

8:00
So what do they do? They understand the requirement. They write the test cases.

8:05
Now you can use AI to achieve a lot of that on inetenth of the time.

8:12
So same people but now you are doing a lot more efficiently that the same work.

8:19
Yeah. 10 10x.

8:26
I mean that’s a that’s a very big statement. 10x that is not a small feat.

8:32
I’m think I’m seeing the same thing. I just have to believe strap in for the ride. We’re going to the moon and back.

8:37
You know, that means the economy’s going to win. Everyone’s going to win.

8:44
I talked to a friend who’s doing really well in kind of new health care, I would say, right?

8:51
He’s doing the I don’t even know the language to use weight loss you know anti-aging and all these kinds of things and within the confines of legal right in healthcare it’s a pretty regulated industry.

8:56
But um he’s doing the kind of new way right tele medicine and all of that and they’re growing 520% he said they grew month over month and he’s been doing this for three years so they’re up and to the right skyrocket.

9:03
And um his perspective perspective when I talked to him last night was, “Hey, just leave everything the same right now. I don’t want interest rates to drop. I don’t want anything to change because his world’s just going so well right now.”

9:09
Um, but I think things are about to multiply out there in this economy.

9:16
So, what do you think about the misconceptions around AI? You know, that is it.

9:23
What are you seeing people think that maybe they have it wrong when it comes to artificial intelligence?

9:29
Oh, there are many uh I don’t think many people understood a AI and they’re using it obviously very basic but I think one big misconception that you hear around is that a AI is going to replace human.

9:37
A it may replace some part of it but it’s going to be more augmenting human but for a lot of the stuff like for repetitive stuff for admin work but it’s not going to be uh replacing it.

9:44
It’s it’s going to help you do things more efficiently more businesses are not going to just reduce people and say oh now we don’t need but they will look for more efficiency how we can achieve more because everybody wants to grow.

9:49
So I think that’s one of the big uh the second bigger one I’ve seen is that AI is a one-click solution.

9:56
Um so we got many time many requests. Oh we want AI to be in our uh application.

10:02
Yes up to some you can have a generative AI but it’s not going to be a one kick solution.

10:08
Uh it’s uh you you you need a lot of stuff in order to build the AI like you need a data you need to clean up your uh data you need to map your workflows you have to do a lot of that work if you want to enable.

10:14
Um so chat GPT is not just AI that’s just doing based on a data it has if you want to embed AI into your processes you need to have your data.

10:21
So that means you need to do all of those efforts to bring in the data and massaging that data and work off of that.

10:27
And that’s not an easy task and that’s where the AI we see like there’s a lot of work going on in that space.

10:34
So yeah, so a AI is not a one-click solution. AI is uh is not going to replace humans and AI is not going to sell for you.

10:39
AI is going to support you, you still have to do the selling at the end.

10:46
Um, no matter how like imagine like you’re even on with any company when you logged in, you’re with the chat part, you’re going to get some information, but for any final thing, unless you have a clear human, you you’re always going to be reluctant.

10:52
So the human part is important. Maybe just doing the final tweaking, final negotiation.

10:57
You don’t want the AI to just sell it for you, then you can’t deliver.

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11:37
Yeah, I love the the one-click part that you mentioned because um the the co-host of this show, I just invited a colleague of mine to co-host with me.

11:44
Um because I’m starting to record a lot more than I used to.

11:50
Um I I record, you know, five of these a week. And so I’m starting to kind of do a lot more than I used to.

11:56
Um we used to put out two a month. Now I’m putting out one a week.

12:02
And so I asked Brian to co-host with me.

12:09
And he has spent 180 hours on building a custom GPT.

12:16
And you know what we’re learning is he can’t just do it all on his own.

12:23
We’ve got a whole IT team at Informatica that can help us with the governance and the persistency of the data to make sure that there’s this, you know, that it persists.

12:31
Otherwise, the GPT forgets what it just said 10 seconds ago.

12:37
So if we just let it on its own maybe in a few years or who knows at the pace of change it could be a few months but as of today I think you still need a project team around the real enterprise type of deployment on this kind of technology for it to be useful especially in BFSI.

12:44
You know financial services health care if you’re going to do things around financial institutions and health care with reg you know regulator regy requirements, you better have a pretty sophisticated project team like that of yourself in your company.

12:51
Otherwise, you’re going to put the wrong data in the wrong hands of the wrong people um and do nefarious things.

12:57
So, very cool technology, but you got to be thoughtful of it.

13:03
Um what about we kind of talked about maintaining the personal touch with with the AI and the augmentation versus full automation.

13:10
Um, how do you do that? Any any sorts of inclinations of how you’re seeing, you know, do you get to a point where we’re all cyborgs and we’re wearing a a helmet with, you know, are we are we putting a chip in our brains or how do you integrate, you know, man and machine, so to speak?

13:16
Is there, you know, what are you starting to to see? How does that come together appropriately?

13:23
Uh well I mean I think there has to be a um a balance there will always be.

13:29
So I think AI can handle uh what and why when but you still need a human to handle why and how because that that uh um.

13:36
Otherwise as we were talking earlier like you can’t just trust AI to do everything for you.

13:43
Yes, you would trust as you also mentioned ear like so once you have all the data with time you’re train you’re training AI as well.

13:50
I always say I you I treat AI just like I am working with my assistant giving those specific instructions and then it keep learning but the day the assistant is doing everything more than me then yes then I can pick up another one and give go to another heights and share uh more of that.

13:56
But yeah, that context come from human. Without that, the AI is not going to give you the right answers.

14:02
Yeah, that’s right. I had another guest on a few weeks ago from Austin.

14:08
I’m glad I just brought that up because I’m supposed to meet him this week while I go there.

14:14
Um that said, our goal should be to automate ourselves, right? And start from the bottom up and just start figuring out which tasks we can automate.

14:21
And then over time we can focus on higher value work.

14:27
And I I remember talking to Lori Richardson. She’s a really really smart person um that talks about women in sales and she’s very pro- women in sales and I love it.

14:34
Right. She’s very much spearheaded that as a as a thing over the last decade or more um in Boston.

14:41
She’s a really good friend of mine and um and I think she she so poignantly said that several years ago and said, you know what she’s really excited about is is moving up and and letting AI do the the monotonous stuff as you just said a little bit ago, you know, and so we can focus on the more interesting work and let the AI do the boring stuff like go out and research and do the things that you just said, you know, do some of the pre-work and then I just get to read it and then I’m more equipped to have the conversation with the customer.

14:48
So, it’s it’s really neat.

14:54
Um, since you’re deploying technology and you’re reading and talking to customers, are you seeing any neat emerging technologies come out?

15:02
Obviously, there’s Grock and Gemini and there’s there’s the basic tools.

15:09
What are the non-basic tools? Anything else that you’re seeing that maybe hasn’t been exposed to the rest of us?

15:16
Yeah. So the two uh that are exciting to me are uh Agentic AI which again may not be as much for many people and the second is the MCP model context protocol.

15:23
Uh that’s from Enthropic the company at Claude. So that’s very powerful.

15:29
You know how as you are writing any software you have um APIs to to expose and access uh let others access your data.

15:36
Um we had Zapier afterward and make now with in AI context that’s MCP in MCP you can expose your APIs to allow others to access your uh your data.

15:43
So that means I can type in my cloud and I can search anything.

15:49
So for example um and there are so many MCP servers available. You can make anything like so there’s a standard protocol and we created many of those for ourself as well as um um we have been using others.

15:56
So I’ll give you a few examples. So for example, we can so I connected with our QuickBooks and now I can just chat and claude asking any specific thing.

16:02
For example, oh, how many subscriptions do we have? How much did we pay for this X thing, right?

16:09
Without going into QuickBooks, I can get all the answers in cloud.

16:16
I can connect with any software as long as uh it’s it supports MCP.

16:23
So for example, we connect with Jeter. So we can create stories right off the requirement document or we have a mockup.

16:29
We says push into the Jira or pull the user stories off of it or I worked on something log these hours without going to Jira without going to the web interface.

16:36
Now you can query do stuff right in your um in your cloud desktop.

16:42
Obviously you can build application another web application on it on top of it.

16:49
So that means any other application you don’t have to build a custom APIs to access their data.

16:56
Now all of that is possible through that MCP.

17:02
Um you can I mean like it’s it’s it’s mind-blowing how um that tool is giving you access to everything uh that you have.

17:09
So that’s one of the exciting uh technologies and I can talk more on that how we have used for example on proposals or in many others how we use that even MCP u and then agentic AI as I was talking so obviously a lot of agents will do some work like the AI you can do research but the world is coming where you it would not only do the research it would it would also do the work on your behalf.

17:16
So most of the AI agent where you are just uh doing certain thing in this one uh in agentic world it’s also going to be making decision on those like in normal AI agents they are not making decisions on your behalf.

17:23
So whether it’s buying a ticket or purchasing a subscription or any of those.

17:29
So that that’s something it’s going to be more and more and that’s where the world is moving because companies do want to build lot of those agents but then also there are certain where they also not really just want to use for some automation but also creating agentic AIs to make certain decisions.

17:36
It could be uh like for example scheduling a call even with with your prospect based on the stuff it find like okay it could AI could go in look for let’s say some conversations off of the podcast or app store and and send messages schedule meeting all of those.

17:43
So now things are I mean so you can do a lot more stuff with AI nowadays.

17:50
Yeah. Amazing.

17:56
Well, even just thinking about my scheduling of the podcast guests, I have an agentic AI that finds guests and then has conversations on my behalf with guests to schedule the podcast now.

18:04
And it’s in a different color box on my LinkedIn outreach so that I can tell when it wasn’t me having the conversation.

18:11
So I when it’s me, it’s in orange. When it’s my agent, it’s in purple, I think.

18:17
And so I go, “Oh, look, that’s what my agent did on my behalf.” So it’s pretty interesting.

18:24
Cool. Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah. Very, very interesting.

18:32
Um, talk to me a little bit about ethics in AI because, you know, as we go into this new world, someone’s responsible for ethics and it some people say, well, the government should play a little bit of an oversight role and and ultimately humans are responsible for the ethics as well.

18:40
Um, what are your thoughts on the ethical considerations? You know, who’s responsible and how do we make sure that the the AI doesn’t run away with the show?

18:46
Well, obviously uh everybody is responsible but but we know how the world is people are not going to be so you always need some governing um body on top defining those rules because when people have a need they would cross some of those limits.

18:53
So uh definitely that’s where uh the laws will make a difference for sure.

19:01
Um so I mean in and in in AI obviously there are many of those ethical consideration.

19:08
It could be the biasness. It could be uh even communicating like in our world we have to communicate uh certain things like in terms of like where the AI where you generated certain stuff from the AI and then especially in healthcare uh where where that data goes like it’s a patient data anonymizing those that data.

19:16
So a lot of those considerations are and and I think until we have those that governing body um especially when you have a sensitive data financial or healthcare is going to be challenging.

19:23
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

19:29
It probably needs to be global at some point too. I would think we we all we all need to get together global leaders and come up with some kind of an agreement at some point probably.

19:36
Totally agree. United Nations, the United Nations of of AI, right?

19:43
Um, yeah. Skill sets that that, you know, people should start paying attention to.

19:49
You know, my wife was asking me the other day, “Hey, can you help our daughter look at her lease because they the landlord was trying to take too much cleaning fee? Can you go ahead and use Chat TPT and write a letter?”

19:56
And I was like, “Okay, hang on. this stuff. AI’s been out for a couple years. Let me just give you a few pointers and you can go ahead and, you know, you should go ahead and do it yourself.

20:02
And I gave her a few pointers on doing it. And I was surprised that at at her job that she wasn’t using it as much as I do because I use it daily.

20:08
Um, what skills do you think anyone who who has a computer and a mobile phone, you know, should should be thinking about when it comes to chat GPT and AI in general?

20:15
I think the most important skill that I talk about is the articulation.

20:21
You should be able to articulate the problem. You should be able to storyt tell because if you can articulate those people who can articulate well provide good contacts they are able to get the work done from AI much better than anybody else.

20:27
I talked a few minutes ago using AI chat GPT as assistant because let’s say if you just tell your assistant to create a power plan it’s going to create but is it something you like it has to build as you want so you have to start giving a very specific instructions of how you want it so that the because at the end it’s your stamp so any so it’s executive stamp so if it’s your stamp them then you want to make sure that it’s created accordingly.

20:34
So that in to me um that product management articulation storytelling these are the things that’s going to make a like in our world the people the the solution people the product people who are usually doing this kind of work are going to be more demanding than people who just get things done based on instructions because now you can give that in same instruction to AI.

20:41
So uh so yeah that’s definitely and then how you use as you are giving example like you have to know how do you use AI because uh the example that you gave about the lead like you can even give ask GPT or claude to you give your context that hey I am this person and it would give you uh a list of question and it will tell you the pointers Hey, I find this.

20:49
You’re a student and you’re getting into the lease. The lease talk about this clause. You want to have a move out like a job relocation clause.

20:56
Something like that. We never thought like by default we won’t pay attention. So AI could help you on those.

21:02
But so you can use that for many different uh different ways.

21:09
And then I think lastly um analytical skills like uh interpreting AI insights.

21:16
So it’ll give you it will throw you so much data. How do you really interpret that data?

21:23
So if you can start obviously even you can use AI to get that interpretation as well but skill I think that skill is important to have.

21:31
Yeah that’s good. On the lease agreement.

21:37
What I what I recommended was, hey, first upload the lease and say and it’s, you know, 10 pages with a lot of fine print and say, read this lease, then interpret it with under the laws of Colorado and then legally, are they really allowed to hold the $1,000 down payment for 60 days?

21:44
And then you know legally, um just ask some questions like you know how how much can they hold back?

21:50
What can we you know and just start asking questions of it just like you said uh about you know asking the data questions.

21:57
Once you’ve uploaded now you can ask questions. Once you’ve asked those questions, then if you were a top legal advisor, um, write a letter as if you were a top legal advisor in Colorado.

22:04
Um, or write it as if you were the administrator to the CEO of a large company and you were very busy.

22:12
You know, you can you can act as if you were someone else and you know, you’ve just hired someone and and you know, now once I gave that set of tools to my wife, it was like, okay, now now I understand.

22:19
Okay, I don’t need you anymore. I got this.

22:26
So, right. Right.

22:32
So, in this time, so yeah, so in this time, it’s about knowing how to use those tools, right?

22:39
I think that’s more important. Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.

22:46
Than knowing everything.

22:52
Uh I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. Um I know you you work in the health care world and I believe we talked a lot about a lot about a lot of things.

22:59
So really appreciate your time. If someone wants to get a hold of you and and and look to hire, what are the types of firms that you serve?

23:05
You know, is it is there a certain company size, certain region? Tell us a little bit about the types of firms you serve.

23:12
Yeah, so we work with health tech companies. Um majority of our uh customers are health tech or uh I would say physician entrepreneurs.

23:18
A lot of physicians have ideas and those were the ones that we started working with.

23:25
And secondly, healthcare service businesses like home care, autism care, assisted living.

23:31
So those are the two types of companies that we primarily work with.

23:36
Excellent. Well, if you’re listening to this show and you need some help in the world of artificial intelligence and health care and healthcare tech, check out Technology Rivers.

23:43
We’ll put the link to how to reach Ghazenfer Mansoor and his team.

23:50
Um, he’s the CEO of an amazing company in Virginia. So, look him up, reach out.

23:56
Thank you so much for being here today.

24:01
Thank you, Chad. It was a really good conversation. Thanks a lot.

24:08
Amazing. And thank you everybody for joining another AI for sales podcast.

24:15
Thanks for listening to the AI for Sales podcast with host Chad Burmeister.

24:21
This episode was brought to you by BDR.AI, Nooks.ai, and Zoom Info, the go-to market intelligence platform.

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BDR.ai helps sales teams accelerate outreach and book more meetings automatically using AI to personalize messaging across LinkedIn, email, and beyond.

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Nooks.AI is the AI powered sales assistant platform that automates account research, list building, and connects reps to more highquality conversations, helping teams double or even triple their outbound pipeline.

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And Zoom Info gives your revenue teams the data and insights they need to find, engage, and win their best customers, helping you move faster, work smarter, and grow revenue at scale.

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If your company is serious about driving better outcomes with AI for sales, here’s the fast track.

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Forget the endless website clicks and forms. Go straight to the decision makers at these companies.

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The ones who can move the needle for your business.

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Chad will personally connect you with the right leaders at our sponsors. The people who can actually make a difference in your business.

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Head to www.sdr.ai/intro
AI/intro and unlock your direct line to a more closable pipeline powered by AI.

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Until next time, keep leading the AI for sales revolution.

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And remember, in sales, time kills deals, but in AI for sales, AI kills time.