0:03 → All right, Kevin back with you for another episode of the Milliondoll Relationships Podcast and today I’m here with Ghazenfer Mansoor. Ghazenfer, welcome. So awesome to have you on the show today.

0:10 → Thanks Kevin for having me on this show. I’m excited.

0:16 → Yeah, I’ll tell you I am too. I am too. And I, you know, I want to give a shout out first to start with, uh, for to Briana and the folks over at the interview valet platform.

0:22 → Uh, those guys, they’re doing such amazing work. And I don’t know, you you guys, you probably don’t know who Briana is, do you? I know you work with them, but you work with somebody else.

0:29 → Briana works probably on my side for podcast hosts. And I I work with Liz and Tom.

0:36 → Okay. Okay. Tom’s the founder. And uh, okay. Very good. And yeah, Briana works with podcast hosts and uh she has been man, I’ll tell you what, she has sent some absolutely amazing guests over and and so now whenever I get an email from her, it’s kind of like Christmas time because I never know what’s going to be in it, but every time I see it, I’m like, “Oo, it’s from Briana. It’s probably going to be good, you know.”

0:42 → And so, so the bar is set high and that’s okay. I’m I’m uh we’re going to have an awesome conversation today and I just want to you know that’s that no that that’s that’s a good point like I think once you build that trust then you keep going back.

0:47 → Yes. I remember uh early in my career I was consulting for a company college board the company who does SAT test.

0:54 → Okay. And I went through another company, RDA Corporation in in the Maryland area and they interviewed me. They really grilled me for two hours on the Java development.

1:01 → So, and then they just put me on a client project and I I mean and it was unusual for me because on every project the client actually interviews and they said the client trusted them so much that they never interviewed their people because they were doing so amazing job and that’s something that clicked to me and I took back in our business.

1:08 → Yeah. And now in 10 years our clients have not interviewed or like maybe in one or two cases where we had to give the resume.

1:13 → Okay. No. But over so sometime you learn that one tip from your customers from your vendors from your peers.

1:20 → Yeah. And that clicks and that helped you put a be a direction for your business as well.

1:25 → Yes. Yes. And and what a testament right there because then for to the power of relationships and power of right relationships which of course is what this podcast is all about you know and when there is that relationship and there’s that trust man it just just kind of flows you know and uh it’s a beautiful thing to experience.

1:32 → So well I would uh I want to start by just you know asking you some questions so we can get to know you and find out more about you and what’s really what makes you tig.

1:38 → So why don’t we start with just talking about you know what is what business are you in, Ghazenfer, and who do you serve?

1:46 → No we’re in a software development business.

1:51 → Okay. Uh we serve health tech companies primarily. We started as companies helping all different types of vertical but gradually we started focusing just on health tech.

1:57 → Now we help companies build HIPPA compliant software products. We also work with healthcare service businesses help them 10x their operations through AI and technology home care assisted living those kind of companies.

2:02 → Um um these are the companies uh who are growing up to a certain standard. These are service companies and we build internal tools process automation helping them uh bring more efficiency in their processes.

2:09 → Okay. Okay. Very good. So um how did you get in to this kind of business, Ghazenfer?

2:14 → I have a computer science background.

2:20 → Okay. And as every developer uh who like to build products, I love building products. So I was in a staffing business before then I wanted to build a product.

2:26 → So I learned um to build product and then I built a recruitment software SAS company.

2:34 → Okay. There were a lot of experiences that learned um the hard way and then when I started this company we started with this moto that we write want to build right the first time because what we have seen the companies are hiring these developers and those products are never ending products. We keep building building never launching.

2:41 → So we wanted to fix that and said okay we will help companies build startup uh we will help startups build products that we build the right way the first time so that um they are not broke if it doesn’t work so the the challenge is I mean and that doesn’t mean that you don’t evolve the problem is once you even define your MVP what needs to be built many time if it is not done right the founders have limited money.

2:48 → So those that is their entry to get more funding. So you want to build something really good the first version so that you get more traction, you get your customers and then you gradually build and enhance and that can only happen when you do the right work.

2:54 → So that was the intention of starting this business.

3:01 → Okay. And what inspires you most about the work you guys do and the impact you’re making, Ghazenfer?

3:07 → There are there are multiple things. So on on the client side, helping these companies create solution that solve the world’s problem. Every company, every founder we are working with, they’re solving something. They are here to change the world.

3:13 → And we are the team that is supporting those businesses. At the same time, the bigger happiness for me as creating an impact but at the same time also creating opportunities for people to be supporting those projects.

3:20 → So because every project you work on, every job you create, that is creating a livelihood for somebody.

3:27 → Yes. Yeah, somebody whether it’s in United States or in a different part of the world, we have people in six different countries and many of those are growing economies.

3:32 → So any of those actions are helping these people making their livelihood better.

3:39 → Okay. and that feeling of as you build these solutions. So you it’s it’s it’s a double bottom line because you’re supporting uh those businesses and those communities and at the same time obviously the benefit of that is I would say it’s it’s it has a multiple impact.

3:46 → So the impact is definitely the one that makes me more excited about what we are doing.

3:53 → Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, that’s that’s that I found well that’s certainly what it is for me too. It’s impact. That’s what gets me most jazzed and excited, you know, and and uh and I think for you know, well, at least the entrepreneurs in my world, you know, that’s the that’s one of the big commonalities between them is that every one of them, they are all using their business as the vehicle to make their biggest impact in the world and stuff.

4:00 → That’s the commonality that they all have. And uh that’s I I’m not surprised to hear you say that at all.

4:05 → And so so uh what so what from where you’re at right now and when your vantage point that you can see what’s your vision for the future of the company?

4:11 → Well um a lot of things are changing. So AI is making a big shift. This is the biggest shift that I’ve seen.

4:17 → Um I started my career when it was the only web. So now I mean that was also a big shift but for me it was opportunity.

4:22 → Now AI is even a much bigger. It’s mind-blowing how things are moving in a direction.

4:29 → Yeah. But at the same time it is also creating those opportunities as well. So this is a time again for people who want to do something to create more companies, more solutions for the problem because it’s much different, much easier than it used to be.

4:36 → Uh so okay uh I mean a as we’re working on different projects for our customers we’re looking at where the opportunity because as you work on any of these you always see more opportunities because whenever there are bottlenecks there are opportunities as well because you have to solve that problem.

4:42 → So with AI it’s it’s interesting. It’s not just solving the existing problem but it’s also bringing a new problems as well. So it’s a very interesting time.

4:49 → Yeah. At the world at the same time it’s a bit scary time for many people as well.

4:55 → Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. So now that we’ve got a little bit of context set here, I want to switch gears just a little bit. I want to start focusing on uh our conversation around relationships.

5:02 → So I just want to start by asking you you know have you ever met or been introduced to a person or persons who completely changed the course of your life or your business, Ghazenfer, so much so that much of what you have today would not be possible if not for this person or persons and I’m just really excited to hear your story and your experience around this topic of relationships.

5:09 → Uh you know Kevin, for me it’s not just one person.

5:16 → Okay. Looking looking back honestly I would say that my journey has been shaped by a series of relationships. Each of those were a stepping stone for the next step.

5:22 → So let’s say I would go back let’s say I grew up in Pakistan.

5:29 → Okay. And I was as I was working on one of the project I got an opportunity that was a very risky as well.

5:36 → Uh but one of my mentor he guided me he pushed me towards taking that opportunity. Had I not taken that risk I would have not gotten to the next one.

5:44 → And so and that opportunity was created by one of the colleague that I was working.

5:52 → Okay. In the same company. Now I went to this next company interestingly and it was a very interesting time and then friend of mine says well you got to do you have to do your master’s degree.

5:58 → At that time I did not have a degree. I had a diploma only. And there were some challenges in terms of he said no I know somebody who can help you this one.

6:06 → So he showed me the path. He arranged the meeting and he pushed me towards getting a higher education.

6:13 → Okay, I got that. I was I rose in poverty and I did not have the means for that.

6:19 → There were people who supported me along the way.

6:26 → Wow. Giving opportunities on jobs or introducing me to something. So each opportunity I look back helped me got to the next step.

6:33 → I would not have been in the United States if I didn’t have those opportunity because those a friend of mine introduced me to a recruiter.

6:39 → Who was recruiting for a company in the US and coming here then one of the coach who showed me um different as I was trying to work on my business um I work with a coach who helped me uh see certain things in a way that I had not seen okay and then these entrepreneurial groups I’m part of EO I’m part of open I’m part of my forums.

6:46 → All these people helped me shaped my journey in a different way.

6:52 → Yeah, there are coaches that I got through EO through other way through CEO coaching.

6:59 → Uh these were all amazing people. each taught me something and I I usually I’m good in like listening and picking up and experimenting things.

7:05 → So I tried many of those things right and I would say even along the way books played a big role in me. I mean I I I read so many books and like I picked up lessons from for example one of my partnership was made based on a book reading from a book a great game of business by Jack and stick in the outcome by Jack Stack.

7:12 → Okay. Another book who not how by Dan Sullivan.

7:19 → Oh yes amazing book that help make a sort of Yeah. Another book by Richard Goldmith. what got you here won’t get you there.

7:25 → Uh Dale Carneg’s book on how to win friends and influence others.

7:31 → Yeah. So all these different books shaped my direction uh in a different way.

7:38 → Yeah. Because every time I’m learning something, I’m experimenting. And then uh I think then I took a leap towards let’s say creating my own podcast, starting my own speaking engagement.

7:43 → Wrote a first book which is on the mobile apps growth strategies beyond the download. How to build mobile apps that people love, use and share every single day.

7:52 → Okay. Now I’m writing another book. Uhhuh. All these things help me shape the direction. But looking back, I would say it’s not one thing. It’s not one person. It would not be fair to if I just point to one person that shaped my direction.

7:59 → Yeah. All these people contributed to my growth.

8:03 → Yes. Yeah. You know, that’s that is really powerful. you you you see this term self-made man you know and uh I don’t think anything could be further from the truth that none of us are self-made you know like you just shared there is a there’s a large number of people who have had an impact on your life over the years and who have just been there at just the right time to lead you in the in the your next direction and stuff in the direction that was in a right fit and in alignment for you, you know, and uh I know you you know mentioned you mentioned the book Who Not How by Dan Sullivan.

8:11 → You know, I was I was in uh I was in strategic coach for a number of years and I was in one of Dan’s groups and I will tell you it’s a pretty amazing experience hanging out with Dan, you know, and man that I I don’t know a deeper thinker than that guy.

8:18 → He is an incredibly deep thinker and he’s just he’s really good at asking just questions that really just cause you to pause and just really start thinking deeply yourself on something that is just that’s really going to help you, you know, go get to where you want to go and make the kind of impact that you want to make.

8:25 → And you’re right, you know, there’s been so many people in your journey. There’s been so many people in my journey too and stuff and uh you know, Ghazenfer, if you look I want you to think of and I’m sure you could come up with lots of examples to this and I just want you to come up with one but if you look at at a situation an experience where you personally you got to make a really substantial impact a really big impact and maybe even as this happened or maybe after it happened maybe you know it even surprised you a little bit and you were just like, “Wow, look at what just happened there and that I caused that to happen and you but yet you also know that would have never been possible if not for the relationship that you had with anyone of these people that you know that have helped you over the course of year.

8:33 → What’s an example of something like that?”

8:40 → Uh do do you do do you mind elaborating a little bit more?

8:46 → Yeah. So so any of these you know whether it was like the recruiter that you talked about or your coach or people that you’ve met in EEO or people that you know you’ve read books like Dan Sullivan’s Who Not How or what have you that then empowered you that you got to make in turn make this really big impact.

8:53 → And so that’s what I’m looking for is I’mam, you know, I want to give you an opportunity to share, you know, a result that you, you know, what I mean, maybe I could frame it easier this way.

9:01 → What’s a result that you have helped a client get that you guys are just incredibly proud of?

9:09 → Yeah. So, uh, okay. So all of these learning, all of these um relationships or impacts that we talk uh I would say even one client helped us uh like even like we’re a software development company.

9:16 → Even in terms of how we were doing the software development, there were some guidance, some tips that came from one of our clients that helped us do the things in a certain way.

9:23 → Okay. They realized, oh that was a coaching came directly from our client to our team. Hey, if you do it this way, this would help you.

9:29 → And that was a mind-blowing because those clients are the clients typically you pay for the service but in this case our relationship has always been with the client as a partner.

9:36 → So they guided us in terms of oh this is how you should do the things and because of that it shaped our development effort as well.

9:41 → So a lot of those things helped us in our journey.

9:47 → Okay. Okay. So do and obviously and and obviously as those different learning that’s also helping us groom uh our team like all the learnings that uh we’re are doing through these groups through these books like for example I’ll give you another one we do like like as you start talking to these different coaches about the growth like what’s that mean like we implemented Lombardi time uh that the word I first heard from a coach that was one of the Vistage Xier and I was one of his CEO peer advisory group.

9:54 → Okay. So I and we implemented that in our company.

10:01 → Uh we have our weeklys with the whole team. So helping building those relationships. All these learning came out of all of these different relationship and that helped us impact that helped the team grow and be a better team.

10:08 → Okay. Okay. Have you had lots of conversations like that with clients over the years where they gave you feedback like that and said that hey if you can do this if you could do this you know it’s is because I love that because man what a I mean like you know they’re they’re the ones investing in you guys and yet there’s this collaborative and cocreative conversation going on between you and them.

10:15 → So that the outcome is far more and far more powerful than it ever would have been if that collaborative co-creative conversation was not taking place.

10:21 → Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um that whole software development, whole product development can only work if you are co-creating something.

10:29 → Yeah. If the clients are giving instruction then we are just doing it. Then we’re just like everybody else then we are not really doing our work.

10:35 → We believe in co-creation. It’s a collaborative effort. Whatever client comes in it’s an idea.

10:41 → How do you work on that idea is uh you have to you have to discuss you have to brainstorm and then come up with the right way of doing it.

10:47 → Yeah. So it’s I think that collaboration part is the most important one that you you raised.

10:52 → Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I see so many businesses that that don’t operate that way. They just do their thing and there’s not enough communication between them and the client they serve that they’re I don’t know.

10:59 → They’re they’re they’re more like we we know how to do this. We’re experts at this and we’re just going to do our thing, you know? And I’m like, man, they’re missing out on so much that could be and could happen if they just started co-creating and collaborating together, you know, and and I know and sometime.

11:06 → Yeah. And sometime that does create a problem as well like uh we had one instant uh instance recently where somebody said they explicitly send an email that you won’t challenge our clients um uh business uh business approaches for example or or or like so in our case we’re not really challenging their decision.

11:13 → What we do is we we we communicate and make sure that they they hear the alternate option as well.

11:19 → So yes, in some way you can say it’s a push back. It’s uh it’s challenging but we challenge in a positive way because challenging mean have you thought about this alternate option that doesn’t mean you should do it.

11:26 → I mean in our case we never push the clients to do things in the way they are not. Our job is to show them many different ways. Here are the three ways of doing this one and here’s one our recommendation.

11:33 → So that model of 31 with three recommendation uh three solutions with one recommendation that’s usually the one of the best way I learned because now you are not making a decision you are letting the client make the decision but you’re giving them enough information to make that decision.

11:41 → Yes, if I only give them one option and many times clients say yes because we’re not technical, we’re not a product people, we trust you then if that doesn’t go well for whatever the reason then it’s a problem and many of those things in in the software world where you don’t know what because you don’t know the client react like their client’s reaction how the users will react.

11:48 → So there is like this is like even in marketing like you continue to optimize and enhance. So the software products are like that. So if you’re building something it’s not that you build something and customer will always like you’ll always have some feedback from people.

11:54 → So in order to do that you have to have that uh product approach where you are providing enough guidance and enough information that the client is making the right enough uh client is making a decision based on all that information available.

12:02 → Yeah. Yeah sense. That makes sense. Yeah.

12:08 → So, um I’m just trying to think how I want to phrase this.

12:14 → Um so, you place such a high value on relationships and not just, you know, relationships that have helped you get to where you are, but also the relationship that you have with the clients that you guys serve and all that.

12:21 → And so, you know, I know that I have long believed uh that as entrepreneurs, uh relationships are our most valuable asset.

12:27 → Um, but for entrepreneurs who don’t necessarily view it that way and they look at maybe there’s other things that they place more value on, what would you say to that entrepreneur who maybe doesn’t place quite as high a value on relationships as you do?

12:34 → Oh, that that’s a harder question because that’s the question for those people who are not focusing on those relationships.

12:41 → So for me it is important and uh let me tell you a story a little bit and this is a common question uh that I’ve been asked many time okay so I want to share a story I probably shared with you before as well.

12:49 → So I go to conferences and many time at the end like many time you’re meeting somebody says okay you exchange cards and I get this comment quite often that oh who uses the card nowadays so they have a digital oh bump the bump the phone or let’s connect on LinkedIn the challenge is once you leave that conference how do you remember who you connected.

12:57 → Yes you go back to your LinkedIn you remember all the 10 people. But if you’re connecting, just connect. There was no reference left and then if you connected, how do I know which connection contact was added when you have thousands of those contacts on your phone?

13:04 → Yeah. So, I always have those physical cards with me and cards are cheaper. And I always tell people one story that I was at a conference many years ago and I was sitting with somebody and we exchanged cards.

13:12 → Okay. Few months later this guy called me and he said, “Oh, we were on the same table and you gave me your card and I’m working on a project um a software development project and we need help.”

13:19 → Is that something you do? Said yes. We talked. We look at the project. We give them a proposal. We got that project.

13:25 → Okay. Few months later, one of the partners also was on the board of another company and they needed some help. So he introduced us there.

13:32 → After a six month of work with them.

13:38 → Okay. We got another project then another one. So we got multiple project from that.

13:45 → Yeah. And looking back in probably six years time frame, we got close to $2 million business from that one card exchange.

13:52 → Yeah. Yeah. From that point onward, I focused on improving the quality of the card and I keep bunch of those with me because they’re cheap.

13:59 → Yeah. But when you go back home or your office, you’ll have a card right in front of you. I have a card right in front of me uh from my TED talk uh over the weekend.

14:05 → So, yeah. So all to me those cards or whatever the way you stay connected. So because and the bigger challenge is now like you go meet people how do you take that relationship and have a deeper that’s right relationship with them and that’s a tough part in today’s world it’s very challenging now connecting on LinkedIn is probably the least we could do maybe on Facebook.

14:13 → But then looking at what that person is doing how you can help that person how you can make introduction for that person or introduce somebody else with that person.

14:19 → Yeah, it’s it’s a difficult challenge but it is I mean it is complicated but you you got to do that.

14:25 → Yeah, you have to find some ways. Yes, the cards are not solving you some but at least if they’re in front of me sometime it refreshes my memory.

14:32 → Yeah. You know in the sales they also talk about followup staying be in front of the people at the right time.

14:38 → Yes. So that also gave you the opportunity.

14:44 → So I’m not saying cards are right or wrong. That’s everybody’s decision. But that helped me. That’s a traditional way and I’m fine with that. For me the card works and I still keep punch with me all the time.

14:52 → That’s awesome. you know, you shared that story with me before when we were getting to know each other and that meant what a powerful story that is. And and and once again, you know, what what a powerful testament that is to the power of relationships, too.

14:59 → That that you know, for one, it just demonstrates that you just sincerely care about people and stuff. And you know when we just show up that way, the right people uh they they they come into our lives, they uh you know, I mean, I I I’m I’m sure you could share lots of examples of just people that you’ve met that you know, they’ve circled back around with you and and you know, maybe decided to do business with you or they’ve referred other people to you or what have you, all because you had that relationship with them.

15:06 → And like you said, you know, I mean, I I got one of my friends uh you know, he they they bought a new uh a new building and and and they’re moving this week. He’s moving his entire offices to a new location and and they started moving today.

15:13 → And so I I just sent him a text message this morning. Just said, “Hey, man. Just wanted to let you know I was thinking about, you know, uh you you and your team today on the first day of moving and stuff and uh and uh wishing you guys the best and look forward to talking again soon.”

15:20 → And just appreciate you. That’s all. That’s pretty much it. That was the whole message right there, you know, and just simple stuff like that that, you know, just people know that we’re on their radar because they matter to us because they’re important to us because the relationship is important to us, you know, and it just speaks volumes.

15:27 → And and you know, you’re right. You know, not many people use cards these days, but I’ll tell you, you know, when you do it and you do it the way that you do it, you just make such an impact.

15:34 → And of course, you I guarantee you, you’re standing out because hardly anybody else is doing it, you know.

15:40 → And so, so, well, I’ll tell you, you know, Ghazenfer, I really appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation today. And for anybody who’s listening to this going, “Man, Kevin, I I really appreciate Ghazen. I really appreciate who he is and how he shows up and and maybe they’re thinking, man, you know, uh, he might be able to help us. I’d like to I’d like to find out more about what they’re doing and maybe they might be able to help us or I got a friend that they might be able to help.”

15:47 → Uh, any any websites, any resources that we can share with folks? I know you mentioned your book too and and uh you know talk talk about that a little bit too.

15:54 → Yeah, absolutely. So my business website is technology rivers.com r i v rs.com.

16:00 → Uh you can find out all about what services the AI work we do. Uh we have a portfolio everything you can find.

16:06 → And then my personal website is gazenifer.com, my first name uh .com where you can learn more about the book that I’m uh working on and my podcast.

16:13 → So I have a podcast called lessons from the lead where I talk to entrepreneurs, business leaders learning about their journeys.

16:20 → So and the book is and thank you for mentioning that the book is beyond the download how to build mobile app that people use love and share every day.

16:27 → This is one of the book that I wrote based on my experiences on the mobile space that I’ve been involved from many of the very early days including way before iPhone and Android came when it was just a palm or Nokia phones.

16:34 → Yeah. So the book talks about all the experiences of building the mobile app that people really use, not really just a download.

16:41 → And if you see on your phone, you always have so many apps downloaded, you’re not using them.

16:47 → Sure. So what do you get out of that? So that book talks over that. So if you are building a mobile app, you want to read that book. It’s going to come out by the end of the year.

16:54 → So by the time this episode is released, it may already be out.

17:00 → Okay. Perfect. Okay. And then I’m also working on my second book which is more on the healthcare side building a healthcare applications uh in the AI world.

17:07 → So it’s we don’t have a date yet there there is work going on but that’s going to be my next so I have few books ideas that I’m going to uh I want to work on.

17:13 → Awesome. Awesome. And as that as that unfolds, I would imagine that your website will be updated with that information too and stuff on the next book and so uh.

17:20 → Yes, as soon as um I have a more clarity on that. Yeah, I think we’re still dabbling with the top the title, but.

17:27 → Okay. overall what we want to talk about, we already have that line. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, perfect.

17:33 → And it does talk about my speaking as well. So I talk on different topic 10x growth through technology mobile app growth AI and healthcare.

17:39 → So the my website has everything.

17:46 → Okay perfect perfect. Well any any last thing that you feel led to share, Ghazenfer, before we call it a wrap?

17:52 → I think I talked a lot in terms of what we do and yeah, thanks for having me on this podcast. Um, and this topic of relationship is uh is really important for me as well because these service businesses run on relationship.

17:59 → In fact, anything uh that you do is based on relationship. In fact, one of the other book that I would mention, I was part of this local group called Cadre by Derek Coburn and he wrote a book many years ago, networking is not working.

18:06 → It’s a good book to talk and one of the thing that he talked which resonated me was you want to be the go-to person for anything.

18:13 → If somebody even need a plumber, if who do they call?

18:19 → Mhm. Are you the person who is connected to many that your friends are always calling you? If you are that person that would make a huge difference. So you want to be that person.

18:26 → Yeah. Yeah. You want to be that connector, that conduit of trust for the people in your world.

18:33 → Yeah. Yeah. And uh I’ll tell you that’s uh that Yes. That’s, you know, that that’s being of service in that way, uh, is incredibly rewarding and and when you do it with the right people, uh, man, you can be you can make a really big impact, you know, and, uh, I’ve I’ve been blessed to be able to be that connector and conduit to trust over the years.

18:40 → And I can tell you, um, you know, this podcast has really played into that.

18:46 → Uh you know it’s not like things weren’t going well before the podcast. They were but there’s definitely you know before the podcast and after the podcast and uh and it’s been a really exciting journey since launching the podcast three and a half years ago.

18:53 → Uh I’m really excited about where we are right here right now. I’m also just really stoked about man where are we going to be in another three and a half years.

19:00 → I mean, I get pretty excited thinking about that vision, too, and stuff. But you’re right, being that connector, being that conduit of trust for the people in our lives, man, it’s incredibly rewarding and and we get to make a really big impact when we’re doing that with the right people.

19:06 → And so, yeah. Well, once again, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation today. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate you and I’m excited to get this out there and share it with folks.

19:13 → So, thank you so much.

19:19 →  Thanks for having me on this podcast. I’m glad I joined this podcast.

19:26 → Absolutely. You’re so welcome