Mobile App Development Strategies for Retention: Beyond the Download

[00:00:00] Auto Intro: Welcome to Disruptive CEO Nation, where company founders, entrepreneurs, and cutting-edge thinkers drop in from around the globe to share startup stories, insider insights, and hard-earned success lessons. Now, here’s your host, a woman who mastered business by placing heels on the ground all over the world, having worked with and coached CEOs and senior leaders from over 90 countries, and who wants you to build your best business future, Allison K. Summers.

[00:00:29] Summers

[00:00:35] Allison Summers: Hi, everyone. Hey, we’re jumping over to Washington, DC today, and we have a wonderful guest. I want to say we’ve got multiple themes today. So, we are talking about technology, but I also love this phrase: “beyond the download.” What happens in your technology after you get that customer to do that first step of engagement?

[00:00:58] We’re going to talk about efficiency; we’re going to talk about so many things. He is a whiz when it comes to mobile app development. I almost want to say he is a historian because he’s been involved in mobile development since the very beginning. So, we are speaking to the CEO and founder of Technology Rivers, and it is my pleasure to introduce you to Ghazenfer Mansoor.

[00:01:25] Welcome to the program.

[00:01:27] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Thanks, Allison. It was so great to be on your show.

[00:01:32] Hey, tell everybody in just better terms than what I could do on what wonderful things Technology Rivers does for their customers today.

[00:01:42] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Okay, so Technology Rivers is a software development company primarily in the healthcare space.

[00:01:48] we do multiple things. One, we build SaaS and mobile products. That’s our expertise, building products, and we started with that motto of building once the right way. So, we want to solve the founder’s pain of not having experimented building the products many different times, because of the mistakes.

[00:02:09] So we took the approach of building it the right way the first time. And secondly, we help service businesses improve their operations through AI and technology. We help them, we help them scale faster, get higher valuation by building the proprietary technology in their processes.

[00:02:34] Every service business has different differentiators, and then the technology’s the one that makes a huge difference. So, we come in, we help them identify the gaps, look at the manual processing, where we can bring efficiency, and that’s when we build the technology that not only bring efficiency, more revenue, more margins, but also, increases the valuation of the businesses.

[00:03:04] So we’re helping them grow through technology, not through people.

[00:03:08] Allison Summers: I think there’s so many different ways we can jump into the conversation, but let’s start with your upcoming book. You have an upcoming book, called Beyond the Download: How to Build Mobile Apps that People Love, Use, and Share Every Day.

[00:03:23] Um, so you have shared with me that you have worked in mobile since the very beginning of pieces. What are some of the things that you coach your customers when they come to you and say, “We need to be mobile.” How do we get it to be something that people not only use, but that they share with others?

[00:03:47] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Absolutely. The very first thing we talk about is do you really need a mobile app? Because many times people just want to build it just for the sake of a mobile app, and then they say, “we want a downloadable app,” but why not just build the web application first? So, but there are times when it’s necessary, like for example, apps like Uber, like DoorDash, like that where you really need interaction, the driving direction.

[00:04:13] There are so many different use cases, but building, it’s important that what you’re building, users need it. So, it’s not about downloading. If I scroll on my phone, I can’t even count how many apps I have, so I need to be able to identify which one. So, if I have the apps, why do I go back and load that app again?

[00:04:37] So it has to show some value to me. So, it’s a combination of different strategies. So, we shared about 30-plus different strategies that people can use to build the apps so that they bring more customers back. So, the focus has to be on the retention, not on acquisition.

[00:05:00] Allison Summers: Yeah, I love that. I love that because you’re right.

[00:05:03] How many times, especially because your phone tells you, “Hey, you have this app that you haven’t touched. Do you want to archive it? Do you want to sleep? Do you want to get it off your phone?” I mean, um, and, uh, yeah, at least once a year you have to go through and go get rid of, get rid of everything.  Are we in a world where with AI and with app development, is it getting…

[00:05:30] I know this is a general question because there’s so many things you can do with your app, but is it getting easier? Are the costs coming down? Is it something that if somebody’s not in the app market that they should consider going into?

[00:05:46] Ghazenfer Mansoor: It is much easier than before. Even before AI, there were many no-code tools.

[00:05:50] People would just go drag and drop, and build the apps. Now with AI even it’s much quicker and faster. So, you can build a barebone app, you could do a lot of stuff, but again, the key question would be it’s not about building something quickly, it’s what value is it bringing? It’s like setting up a business, but if you don’t have real value, you won’t get the customers.

[00:06:14] Or if you get one or two customers or some customers through some referrals or through some way, are you able to get more customers on an ongoing basis? Are your customers calling? I was reading somewhere the other day, what is the one KPI or one value that will tell you that your business is doing great?

[00:06:35] That is if, are your customers calling you or are you chasing them? If your customers are calling you, that’s the one that will make a difference, right? So, the same is the case in case of, in case of apps, because if, if you’re, if your customers are asking for that app, if you’re solving a problem that really needs an app, then yes, go build it.

[00:06:59] But building the app for the sake of the app, not necessarily. So, we talk to customers all the time. We push them back thinking, what, why do you want to build it? Like, can this be solved in another way?  like what is the core problem you’re solving? Because the people are still coming to your app for some specific problem

[00:07:21] Like you go to the LinkedIn app every day. I mean, yes, you can go on the web as well, but there is a reason you go to like it if you are on the go, yes, app would solve some problems. You’re going on TikTok, Facebook, all those different apps every single day. They’re solving some problems.

[00:07:39] You are, you’re going there for content. You’re going there for something, not necessarily that there is an app.

[00:07:46] Allison Summers: So, let’s just get nostalgic for a moment. Where, what platforms were you originally building apps in?

[00:07:54] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Oh, that part has continued to evolve. So, when we started a long time ago, I started even before iPhone and Android, so obviously those were custom, like Java-based apps.

[00:08:08] So Inlets was for the front end, and then later on iPhone and Android came. So, the iPhone was Objective, then later on Apple introduced, uh, Swift, so now it’s a combination of Swift and Objective-C. For Android it was Java, Kotlin. Uh, now there are a lot of hybrid tools, so even in the hybrid they were different.

[00:08:31] It used to be a hybrid. It was more of a web kit based, like you have a browser without the header and the footer and everything, so you have a browser inside your app. But now the hybrids are much more like a native app. Like we use React Native a lot in our development. We use Google Flutter as well. So, there are many different frameworks, but the most popular ones are Flutter and React Native, so where you can build, uh, pretty much native apps using these frameworks, and you can mix native and hybrid app code as well.

[00:09:06] Allison Summers: Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that.  I find it fascinating to think about, you know, how technology keeps evolving, and so let’s jump forward to, you know, how you said you’re in the business of helping founders solve their pain points and, and also scale faster. I know you’re a big proponent of can we help you achieve 10X growth.

[00:09:27] So tell us just a little bit about, or do you have a case study of how you helped, um, a company with some of these solutions to build more efficiencies in their workflows or to help their customer support journey?

[00:09:46] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Yeah, so let’s look at the scenario. So, you’re a service business, and you’re using, let’s say you’re calling customers, you’re using spreadsheets, you’re using even sometimes software.

[00:09:58] Let’s say you may be using Salesforce, maybe using, um, um, um, uh, HubSpot or many other different tools that you are using. But my common question always is, is your competitor using the same tool, or do they have access to that? Yes. Well, in that case, where is the differentiator? So, you have the same tools available that your competitor has.

[00:10:24] So you’re all going after the same customers, providing the same services. And then, yes, my service is better, you’re more efficient, you have good people, but those can easily be achieved by others as well. Mm-hmm. So how do you create a differentiator that’s not really just the people? So that’s where the proprietary workflows come in.

[00:10:48] You are doing something very specific. Build, build something that brings efficiency into your workflows, how you navigate from one point to another in your business. Once you identify those and build applications for that, that will not only bring efficiency, but that will be a unique thing specific to your business, and that would make a differentiator.

[00:11:10] You’ll be able to get customers fast; you will be able to service them faster. Whatever is the different thing I mean, and every business is different. There’s no unique way. Like, there’s no common thing, cause if it’s common, others are. We’re not talking about building another SaaS. We’re not talking about building a tool that everybody could use.

[00:11:29] So you’re not solving everybody’s problem, you are solving your specific business, uh, problem. That’s like building the internal tools for your business.

[00:11:39] Allison Summers: And I think about, you know, what, what a lot of the founders I speak with, what we talk about is if you build something that’s proprietary, whether it’s a process, whether it’s a, a technology solution, and it’s, it’s y- as you said, a differentiator unique to you, you can also give it a very specific name.

[00:11:56] You can trademark that name, and it does make a much more compelling, um, business partner story when you’re out there trying to acquire new customers. Now, obviously it has to be delivered, but I really love your philosophy. Are you using the same tools as your competitor, or have you found something that is your niche that people can recognize and, and see and at least understand when you tell that story?

[00:12:56] I know technology is just so vast and wide, but can you give us an example of something that was a recent client solution that you delivered?

[00:13:06] Ghazenfer Mansoor: So, customers come for multiple reasons, but there’s a common theme that we have seen even from the beginning once, when I started this business in 2015. Obviously with technology or as we pivoted to healthcare, some of those things change.

[00:13:24] Now people come to us more because of the healthcare experience, because of the HIPAA compliance experience, and because of our AI experience. So, anytime they look for those, uh, services, they find us, whether you’re on ChatGPT or Gemini, wherever, you’ll find us. So that’s the reason main customers are coming to us, that we specialize in HIPAA healthcare software development, HIPAA healthcare mobile app development.

[00:13:51] Those are our areas. However, there’s another common theme which is even non-healthcare as well, which is fixing broken projects. Hmm. The majority of the time customers come to us, they say, “Well, we have been working with this X company for this long, and our product is not working.” We, or we use this individual developer or we hired internally, we have been building.

[00:14:20] Either it’s not being launched, or it’s working but it’s not doing much. It’s one of those things where people are not using it. There are common problems on the mobile app side. They’re not getting retention, so there are so many, but the theme is still the same. Those are the broken projects that need fixation.

[00:14:44] Allison Summers: I love, and this is why you really like to talk about why software projects fail, I guess because you’ve seen so much from the other side. There is nothing more frustrating for a business leader than making a decision and pouring tons of money into a software project that doesn’t turn out the way that you thought it was going to

[00:15:04] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Right.

[00:15:05] A- and it goes back to the original t- uh, um, uh, point that I made at the beginning w- when we started this business, um, which was building the product the right way the first time. I even made the same mistake when I had my own recruitment software startup. So, build the SaaS product. We’re tech people, building a really strong foundation, but then, when we put it out, we didn’t get any customers.

[00:15:33] We thought, okay, we’ll build it and people will come. Our product was much better than We will build it, yeah. Our product was much better than many of the big competitors, but, again, we thought, again, being a builder, we thought, okay, people will come, and that didn’t happen. We went back to the whiteboard, redid the user experience, and did the strategy again.

[00:15:55] That’s when we started getting customers. Customers are not going to come for you for a feature, and that’s another common theme. People want to, “Oh, I want to have this feature. Because it’s easy for your competitor, competition to copy those features, so you don’t want to be going into that race.

[00:16:12]. So, we’re seeing a lot of those, uh, problems, and that’s one of the reasons we said, okay, we want to build something where we build it the right way the first time. And we see that theme again and again when people are coming back with one problem or another, and there are probably 20 different types of problem that we see when these founders are coming with their product problems

[00:16:44] Allison Summers: I want to flip the conversation and, and talk about, um, how you lead your, your company, how you lead Technology Rivers and the values that you have and the, the lessons learned as, as you’ve built this firm.

[00:17:00] So let’s start with tell me a little bit about your team that you have there and that, um, you know, and how you divide those, those pieces at the top.  Who’s your right hand, who’s your left hand to make sure that you have a sustainable and great business?

[00:17:19] Ghazenfer Mansoor: So yeah, we’re a global company. We have m- people in six countries, um, developer, designers, marketers.

[00:17:30] So m- we’re all remote, um, even before COVID. That’s how we started. That’s how we have people at a certain place, like where all the developers are, they usually go to the office. So, we have a developer in Pakistan. But, other than that, everybody else is remote. And I think the bigger part of that is that it helps us do things a little bit differently.

[00:17:55] Because when you are in the office, your work style is different. When you are remote, that means you have to work on your processes. You have to, uh, be able to articulate things well. You have to have the right KPIs for your team. Because if some people are in the office, it’s a very different routine, but people need to communicate well.

[00:18:17] So all of those things force us to do those things the right way, and we are learning every single day.

[00:18:25] Allison Summers: What would you say are some of the core values that if I was interviewing to come onto Technology Rivers, that your team would tell me I could expect?

[00:18:35] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Uh, transparency is one of the keys. One of the other ones is getting things done.

[00:18:44] So we will make sure whatever we are building for you; we’ll get things done. If not, obviously we’ll communicate. It goes back to fairness, that’s very, that’s one of the core values that we have, whether we are working with our vendors, employees, customers, everybody, we want to be fair with them.

[00:19:06] Allison Summers: I appreciate all of those. Hey, you do work with, um, The Entrepreneurs Organization. What advice do you have for other company founders, um, and business builders, um, related to overcoming challenges or getting to breakthroughs? Because we know it’s just, it’s a difficult business landscape these days.

[00:19:31] Ghazenfer Mansoor: True.

[00:19:31] Yeah, I would say every entrepreneur, every business, they go through the challenges. But when you have those challenges, what do you do? Who do you run it through? You’re not going to be sharing with your family friends, you’re not going to be sharing with the family, and may not necessarily have the entrepreneurs in your family, right?

[00:19:52] So you need a network where you can bounce off your ideas. So that’s where these CEO peer groups come in, like Vistage, EO, YPO. There are many different outlets. You know, I’m part of OPEN. So, these are different outlets. And the biggest one is having a coach, somebody who has done it before, somebody who knows how to solve this problem, who can make you accountable.

[00:20:19] where you can bounce off those ideas in confidentiality. And so, to me, those are the bigger lessons learned, and I tap on this network for any of those helps.

[00:20:33] Allison Summers: Now, I really appreciate those words of wisdom. You also decided to start a podcast, because apparently you are not busy enough. So, tell us a little bit about the podcast and why you decided to start it.

[00:20:46] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Yeah, so the podcast is Lessons from the Leap. This is where I sit down with entrepreneurs, uh, leaders, um, business and tech leaders, talking about some of the leaps that they have gone through. Some of the success stories, some of the failures, whatever are the leaps they made, I want to talk about those.

[00:21:05] So this is just more of a passion project. This is just, I like, mm, entrepreneurship, I like talking to people. I love, uh, reading stories. So, my favorite book for a long time was, uh, Founders at Work by Jessica Livingston where she wrote about how different businesses start. So, I love those stories.

[00:21:30] So now as I go to EO or many other places, talk to other entrepreneurs, I’m always, uh, fascinated by how people have achieved certain things. And obviously, these people share about the failure stories as well. So, and, and I follow a lot of those on different forums as well. I read their books as well.

[00:21:54] So the podcast is about learning from other entrepreneurs the lessons they learned, the leaps they made, and sharing it with my audience.

[00:22:07] Allison Summers: Nah, really appreciate that. It’s very similar reasons why I do this. This is my cohort where I get ideas from, where I just get inspired when I speak to leaders like your- yourself.

[00:22:21] We’re getting close to the end, so I want to ask you, um, you’re, you’re busy, you’re running this international global company. You are working with all of these clients, but what is it that brings you joy and that you do to bring, I always hate the word balance, but, you know, to keep your energies going forward?

[00:22:45] Ghazenfer Mansoor: I think the bigger word for me is impact. Mm. So when I started this business, um, I started for flexibility. Money was never the reason. It’s just that I wanted the flexibility. I’ve been able to go back, go to, let’s say, attend my kids back to school nights, and have my own schedule. That was the original reason.

[00:23:06] So I was making good money. When I started this business and I started hiring people in a different part of the world, then after some time when I visited and then I suddenly felt different. Oh, the impact that it’s creating, the 30, 40, 50, 60 people’s houses are running on those. So that gives you a different comfort, different feeling.

[00:23:34] So the business is not just about me building something and making money out of, but the impact that it’s creating, the empowerment that it’s providing. We have close to 25% of our staff women. So, women empowerment is another big one. We do want to have more women get into the workspace, especially in growing economies where it’s challenging.

[00:24:07] Culturally it’s not easy in many countries. So, if you provide those opportunities in a remote culture, remote work culture, it’s much easier to hire those people to provide those opportunities

[00:24:24] Allison Summers: I couldn’t agree with you more, and I was recently reading the statistics of the number of, um, the percentage of women in AI consulting.

[00:24:31] I think it’s at about 30% right now. Um, and so I think it’s just diversity of thought and having teams that are built so that each person on the team is going to approach a problem maybe with a different concern or a big idea. I think all of those things are important, so I applaud that. Hey, if we come back and talk to you, um, one or two years down the road, what’s going to be the story for Technology Rivers or what is it that you think we might need to be keeping our eye on?

[00:25:09] Ghazenfer Mansoor: That’s a tough one. Yeah. I wasn’t prepared for that. So, uh, I think, yeah, so if we talk, in two years or three years’ timeframe, we want to be known as one of the best companies in the DC area for doing the quality work, we don’t believe in the, the quantity, so not the number one in terms of that, but known the best technology company, and we want to increase that number where we are creating more impact.

[00:25:47] Like you, you will probably see more than 50% woman in our company

[00:25:55] Allison Summers: Hey, as we are closing out, if people want to learn more, know more, connect with you, where should they go and what should they do?

[00:26:04] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Technologyrivers.com, that’s my business website. Ghazenfer.com is my personal website where you can learn about my podcast, my book, my speaking engagements, everything. And m- my LinkedIn.

[00:26:19] My name spelling is unique, so if you search my name, you will find me right away on LinkedIn. Well,

[00:26:25] Allison Summers: thank you so much. I want to give a shout-out to the book. It’s not out yet, but it will be out soon, called Beyond the Download: How to Build Mobile Apps That People Love, Use, and Share Every Day. And we are just so grateful that you gave us the gift of your time, shared a little bit of wisdom, and came on our podcast.

[00:26:42] So, thank you so much.

[00:26:45] Ghazenfer Mansoor: Thank you, Alison. It was great to ha- to be on your show.

[00:26:48] Allison Summers: Hey, to our listeners, if you heard something that you think somebody else needs to hear, pass along a copy of this episode. And as always, say, “Keep your eye on the future and always be disruptive.” Everybody has a great day.

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